Replacing entire hatchboard system..

[Poda]

So the hatch board frames on my boat are shot. The framing is made out of wood and when the previous owner redid the hatch boards they expanded and split the frames apart. It's still holding together, but one of the winter projects this year is to redo them.

I was thinking of redoing them using a 1/4" or 1/2" thick extruded aluminum channel, then adding wood trim. My question is how to best affix the channel to the fiberglass. I know 5200 should only really ever be used for hull-deck joints (can't remember where I read that, but it makes sense), but since I'd never need to remove them once done is it a viable adhesive? While screwing them in is another option, I can see having to countersink the screws being an issue in my case. Is there anything else someone else can suggest that would hold up if a rogue wave were to slam into the boards during rough weather?

Or, since I'm open to suggestion, an alternative method of going about the whole project?

[Quetzalsailor]

Not many rogue waves on Lake Ontario. How likely are you to take that raceboat to sea?

That said, I'd put it all back together the way it was. I understand that you're talking about the companionway. Wood tracks, wood boards, adequate clearance.

The simple channels would be a pain. You'd have to drill access holes through the outside leg and countersink the screws into the inside of the inside leg; the access holes would have to be big enough for the countersink (OK, a drill bit reground to the correct angle). There's no bonding these channels to the 'glass: aluminum moves more than 'glass with heat, and no bond would be strong enough for rogues, wet or human.

[Poda]

Thanks for the input - the whole counter-sink issue was where I started thinking of 5200. Good to know it won't hold up.

While I won't be taking this bad boy out across the pond (sure, it's billed as an offshore racer, but not *that* far offshore..), the lakes aren't going to be its only cruising grounds. It's going to spend a fair amount of time on the eastern seaboard (between New Brunswick and, say, the Carolinas), and the weather that that entails. That's why I'm refitting with that in mind. As a former Atlantic sailor (albeit on France's side), I'm well aware of how brutal it can be even close to shore compared to Lake Ontario, and how quickly it can change. I'd just rather over-build where I can for peace of mind, and that's where things like adding 2-3" cockpit drains, overbuilt hatchboards, storm hoods et al come into play.

[Rachel]

I'm not carpentery enough to answer, but I'm thinking that if you posted some photos of the companionway on your boat, folks will chip in with more information. I know I would like to see how it's set up.

Thanks,
Rachel

[Poda]

Ask and ye shall receive Rachel..

This is the only shot of the companionway I've got..



Essentially, the cabin coamings are flat. There's no built-in recess or channel or anything, that's entirely done by the framing. The framing is set up in a simple right-angled structure.

[Rachel]

What a handy place for a couple of drawers ;)

Thanks for the photo - it's great to actually see what you're asking about.

I don't know if you've read this already, nor if it would apply to you, but here is a link to James Baldwin's article on rebuilding his companionway hatchboard tracks. It might give you some ideas even if you don't have the same ultimate goals.

http://atomvoyages.com/projects/Companionway.htm



Rachel

[Poda]

That was my first reaction when I saw them too.. Got the previous owner to thank for that. And the fact that he made them out of some soft wood (pine i think) or other that inflates like crazy when it's humid/wet out (you can see the frame starting to split from the expansion on the starboard side). I'll be remedying that by making new boards out of 3/8" plexi or lexan, which also gives me flexibility to fabricate the slides.

I can't believe I forgot about the Atom site. I've combed over that place over and over, and completely forgot about the companionway section. Thanks for the reminder!

[Figment]

I know they need to shed water and all, but making the sill more broad and butt-friendly is definitely on my "next time around" list.

[Poda]

I can't really extend the sill astern thanks to the traveller on the bridgedeck, but I was thinking of extending it inwards into the cabin and making it part the top step. On a slightly-less-than-24 ft boat though that 1/2-3/4 ft really cuts into valuable internal real estate.. although it's the perfect opportunity to slightly increase storage under the soon-to-be new steps.. decisions decisions..

[Hirilondë]

There's no bonding these channels to the 'glass: aluminum moves more than 'glass with heat, and no bond would be strong enough for rogues, wet or human.

I'm not so sure nothing would work. Aluminum frames for deck hatches are often aluminum and they don't expand and contract so much as to break the bond to the fiberglass. A flexible adhesive like 5200 or any polyurethane would most likely stand up. I still don't like the idea of 5200 as it could never be removed without considerable risk of damage and I don't think it is necessary.

I would rebuild it out of teak like the original. It wasn't the design that was at fault for the problem, but a poor choice of materials. A well built teak containment frame and teak sliding panels is extremely strong, and down right purty too!

[Hirilondë]

I know they need to shed water and all, but making the sill more broad and butt-friendly is definitely on my "next time around" list.

It sure is a comfy spot to hang out, but you do know what they say about people who hang out in and blocking the companionway? ;>)

[Skipper599]

but you do know what they say about people who hang out in and blocking the companionway?

No, I'm not familiar with whatever it is "they say" ... care to tell us?

[Hirilondë]

but you do know what they say about people who hang out in and blocking the companionway?

No, I'm not familiar with whatever it is "they say" ... care to tell us?

Well, "they" say a lot of things, and none of them are complimentary. On a small boat it isn't an issue so much as there is little room and the 2 people who cruise the boat are used to being in each other's way. One is usually at the helm, so where the other one hangs out isn't important. But on a bigger boat with several or more on board it is considered quite rude to hang out in and therefore blocking the companionway.

[Quetzalsailor]

"Only a_________s(5 missing letters) and admirals" stand in the companionway. I had a friend aboard about 20 years ago who said that to me, as I stood in my own companionway. Sheesh! But even I don't stand there anymore.

[ILikeRust]

I need to rebuild my companionway also. I'm thinking of doing it with Starboard and converting from three stacked boards to two removable swinging doors on half-hinges.

Along these lines: http://brighterworks.com/companionway_doors.html

I also need to rebuild the sliding hatch tracks and the wooden housing that the hatch slides into on the deck. I'm thinking of doing all of that in Starboard.

Or maybe black walnut, since I have a whole mess of that lying about anyhow.

[Duncan]

"Only a_________s(5 missing letters) and admirals" stand in the companionway. I had a friend aboard about 20 years ago who said that to me, as I stood in my own companionway. Sheesh! But even I don't stand there anymore.

I think that is a weird New England thing, since that's the only place I've ever heard it. Certainly never in Canada or in the Caribbean.

I say weird, because some New Englanders seem to get so comically uptight about it.

It's a comfortable spot, and safe and secure, too. I don't begrudge it to myself or anyone else. If I feel like they're in the way, I just ask them to fetch me whatever it is I want from below.;)

[Skipper599]

"Only a_________s(5 missing letters) and admirals" stand in the companionway. I had a friend aboard about 20 years ago who said that to me, as I stood in my own companionway. Sheesh! But even I don't stand there anymore.

Did he ever step foot aboard your boat or go sailing with you again?

[Poda]

"Only a_________s(5 missing letters) and admirals" stand in the companionway. I had a friend aboard about 20 years ago who said that to me, as I stood in my own companionway. Sheesh! But even I don't stand there anymore.

Did he ever step foot aboard your boat or go sailing with you again?

I was thinking the same thing.. unless it was a very close friend of mine a comment like that would illicit a response of "There's the transom.. the shore's over there.. have a nice swim"

As a related side story to how I would deal with a sense of entitlement or superiority on my boat.. Suffering through a cold spell (-20C or so, plus high winds) one winter a friend begged me for a ride. I was home, cozy, and had no intentions of going anywhere, but I did him this favour anyway. Half-way through our trip, in the middle of nowhere (well, the suburbs, with crappy transit - you see where this is going), I sparked up a cigarette. This was nothing new. I smoked at the time, and he knew it. Well, he looks at me and says "Please don't smoke in the car".. After begging a ride, not compensating for gas, having me go out of my way and take up my time to do him a favour he has the nerve to tell me what to do in my own vehicle? Nuh-uh.. I ignored him, lit up, pulled over and told him to get out of my car. At first he thought I was kidding. He quickly learned I was not. I later learned he spent 2 hours waiting for a bus.

Ok, enough of the hijacking of my own thread lol..

ILikeRust: Interesting.. do those drop in? Or does the entire assembly bolt to the coamings?

[ILikeRust]

ILikeRust: Interesting.. do those drop in? Or does the entire assembly bolt to the coamings?

I believe you can do it either way - replace just the doors and use your existing door "jamb", or replace the whole shebang. You pretty much use Starboard just like you would use dimensional lumber and build it up the same way.

I'm now leaning towards using some of the pile of black walnut that I've got on hand anyhow to do mine with. In fact, I'm thinking I'll replace all the old, weatherbeaten teak on the deck with the black walnut - hatch surround, hatch slide rails, hatch cover (garage? not sure what to call the wooden cover that the sliding hatch slides into on the deck), and grab rails.