60s era Headliner Material??

[hriehl1]

1968 Hinterhoeller 28.

Wondering if anyone can help identify my interior "finish" and suggest repair / refurb methods.

The interior walls and headliner are some sort of (brittle) plastic that appears to have been sprayed over the interior hull and deck glass. It has chipped in a couple spots and is perhaps 1/8 inch thick, and also separated (from the hull and deck glass) & cracked in a few spots. All deck hardware bolts go through it and washers and nuts lay up against this material. It has been painted but has a smooth, almost gelcoat-like finish.

I'll post photos when I figure out how to, but my current plan to to use thickened polyester almost like plaster to inject behind where it has separated from hull / deck glass to re-attach it... and also to fill in some cracks and voids as one would fair a hull. Then sand and paint.

Any advice with this plan would be appreciated. Without trying to stir up a polyester -vs- epoxy debate... am I correct that thickened polyester should have 80-90% the adhesive qualities of epoxy? And in this non-structural, cosmetic application would be acceptable (and cheaper)?

Thanks

[Hirilondë]

1968 Hinterhoeller 28.
Without trying to stir up a polyester -vs- epoxy debate... am I correct that thickened polyester should have 80-90% the adhesive qualities of epoxy? And in this non-structural, cosmetic application would be acceptable (and cheaper)?

Thanks

I can't imagine the adhesive strength of polyester is anything approaching 80-90% of epoxy. I will refrain from answering your question regarding what is acceptable as I will surely enter the polyester vs. epoxy debate in doing so :)

[hriehl1]

I believe the 80-90% comparison may have come either from Don Casey's most recent edition of This Old Boat... or maybe something I read in a back issue of Practical Sailor. The criteria may not have exactly been "adhesive qualities", it may have been a more-general statement about "strength". The essence of the comment was that epoxy is demonstrably better, but polyester, at 1/4 the cost, has its place in the arsenal.

In thinking a bit more about the problem, I am now leaning towards some sort of caulk-like product with moderate adhesive qualities applied through the cracks that can also fill the small voids behind the headliner. I am not trying to hold the headliner up, it is firmly in place. I am simply trying to put some volume behind the voids where the headliner now has some give. After that repair has dried, I'll fair the surface facing the cabin over the cracks, then paint.

I am a bit intimidated on this board because from comments and photos it is clear many of you are true craftsmen with very high aesthetic and repair standards. But I'm just a semi-handy sailor wanting to get onto the water in something bigger than my O'Day DS that is safe, seaworthy and not so worn-looking that my wife won't come with me. Many of you would only have a "cherry" '57 Chevy... I'm OK with a '64 Dodge Dart if it is reliable and safe.

[Rachel]

I am a bit intimidated on this board because from comments and photos it is clear many of you are true craftsmen with very high aesthetic and repair standards. But I'm just a semi-handy sailor wanting to get onto the water in something bigger than my O'Day DS that is safe, seaworthy and not so worn-looking that my wife won't come with me. Many of you would only have a "cherry" '57 Chevy... I'm OK with a '64 Dodge Dart if it is reliable and safe.

hriehl1,
I can't speak for everyone (and certainly not for the true craftsmen ;), but I think we want to be welcoming. Still, one of the things I love about this board is that it is (what seems to be) one of the few places where people aren't suggesting "quick" fixes, but will instead spend the time to discuss the (or many) ways to do a job properly. And I hope that doesn't change.

My impression is that the folks here would appreciate both the '57 Chevy and the Dodge Dart, because they are both classics. And while a shiny Awlgrip paint job is nice, I'm more concerned with good bones when it comes to a project. That is (in addition to a good design), I want to know the brakes are up to snuff and that the frame was properly welded, and that the seat springs were re-done well before the covers went back on.

Granted, a long, complete restoration might not be right for every boat or situation, but on the other hand it's hard to recommend shortcuts (especially when they don't always turn out that way in the end). (Now, someone might choose to do something the "lesser" way if it is appropriate to the project, but I don't find it that easy to recommend that option from afar.)

Maybe I'm rambling a bit, but what it boils down to is that I want you to feel welcome here. But I also wanted to try to explain why I like this board, and its helpful, experienced members who take the time to contribute. I like that people here work to a high standard, and I hope it stays that way; but I don't see it as being primarily about having the best or the fanciest - especially in terms of appearance (only).

Rachel

PS: I would also mention the smell of polyester resin for interior work, but that might stir up the debate ;)

[Hirilondë]

I think you will find that although many people here have very high standards, these standards are directed more at the choice of materials and techniques than perfection in aesthetics. We certainly have the later as well, but the discussions revolve more around sound results than shear beauty.

There are people out there sailing some boats with quite poor appearances who are cruising like most of us can only dream of. I met man in the Caribbean as a youth who was sailing one of the most poorly finished boats I ever saw. He made his mizzen (ketch rig) out of the same section as his main because he saved money. The interior was not even remotely finished. The bystanders at the near by yacht club made fun of him as he worked building his boat. 4 years later he snubbed his nose at them as he sailed by after his first trip around and just kept on going.

But these people know that to be safe boats have to be taken well care of structurally and mechanically. They know that anything you do is worth doing well the first time. Boats require far more maintenance than any of us wish they did. It is bad enough to have to fix things once. But if you have to repair the same thing again because you cut corners on materials or preparation then you are the fool. This doesn't mean any of us never makes mistakes, but we try not to make them on purpose. If your headliner is worth fixing, do it well. If it isn't worth doing well, then fix something else that is first. Your list of things to do is never going to end, but it can get shorter.

[Skipper Dan]

As someone who has done bodywork for 11 years and then rebuilt airplanes for another 4 years I am going to answer your question whether I get flamed or not. Use a good fiberglass water proof body filler short strand. There are a few good ones out there. Google water proof fiberglass body fillers. Also to do what you want to do you could also use a foam filler, then fill in the hole with a little epoxy. Without pictures and a better idea of what it is you are doing this is my first thought from what I think you are trying to do. You could also use a urethane type filler in a caulking gun shooting it in the hole to provide backing then again fill in the hole with epoxy. There is nothing wrong with a good quality fiberglass body filler for what you want to do. It is more than strong enough to adhere to anything.

Good luck Dan

[Rachel]

Hi Dan,

I just want to say that while everyone here might not always agree on everything, we don't flame.

I bet working on airplanes is a great background for working on boats; I once worked with a former airframe and powerplant mechanic, and that fellow had high standards and a very neat workbench!

Rachel

[Skipper Dan]

Thanks Rachel I always forget to put a smiley there :-) While I'm typing I am smiling thinking others see it the same way. One of the bad things about typing vs speaking. Some of the A&Ps are very good while others not so good.

A couple of my projects.

Dan

[Rachel]

And next.... a Triton!

Looks like she's in good hands :)

[Tim]

I am a bit intimidated on this board because from comments and photos it is clear many of you are true craftsmen with very high aesthetic and repair standards.

There's no need to be intimidated. Everyone's here to help or because they're interested, not to intimidate.

However, many people who choose to frequent this board and share information are likely to have learned through real experience over the years that it simply doesn't pay to knowingly cut corners when it comes to boats. Nobody here was born with any sense of this knowledge: we all learned once. I know I'm still learning every single day. Doing a good job is a moving target, but there is still a target to aim for.

The choices you ultimately make are yours alone. You can weigh the various tidbits of information you may come across and decide which approach works best for you. Certainly there is more than one way to approach any task, and often more than one "right way". But the overwhelming tone (if not necessarily every post or user) of this board is always going to champion doing things thoroughly and using the best materials possible without consciously choosing an inferior route. Perhaps it's an ideal, but without an ideal to strive for, how does one even begin?

One must consider this board to be just one of many sources that might contain information applicable to any given project. One can weigh its worth against the other sources and make one's own plan of attack accordingly. If this board's crime is that of always trying to suggest the best way of doing things (typically based on real experience), then I can accept that, even if that approach seems over the top to some.