Non-Skid deck using LPU Paints, a DIY Tutorial

This is the place to post your ideas, thoughts, questions and comments as relates to general boatbuilding and reconstruction techniques and procedures (i.e. recoring, epoxy, fiberglass, wood, etc.)
Post Reply
DaleH
Bottom Paint Application Technician
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:51 pm
Boat Name: MISS TEAK
Boat Type: Parker 25 SC
Location: Parker River, Newbury, MA
Contact:

Non-Skid deck using LPU Paints, a DIY Tutorial

Post by DaleH »

INTRODUCTION: FWIW I’ve been ‘lurking’ here for years, but never posted. Plus … err, I’m a stink-potter (due to my tuna fishing habit) but please know I am a boater with more brains than horsepower ;) ! As a maritime history buff, I do consider sailors as THE true mariners! I started a similar website to Tim’s, but for owners of Parker boats, http://www.classicparker.com , many years ago. That said, through the years I’ve been following Tim’s examples, so I thought it was high time I posted a project that some of you may find helpful!

Re-Doing a Deck with NON-SKID using 2-Part LPU PAINTS:
Well, it was bound to happen. There was no more ‘non-skid’ to be found on my cockpit deck. For a ’92 vintage, the deck overall is in good shape with no soft areas. I compared various methods from 1-part paints with non-skid additives, like Interlux Interdeck or West Marine’s non-skid paint (actually rated really well by Powerboat Reports), to gelcoat with sand or non-skid added or sprinkled on top, to special 2-part linear polyurethane (LPU) paints like AwlGrip or Perfection et al. Here are the pros and cons I came up with.

1-part Paint: Pros: Easy to apply, Interdeck even says no primer needed. Fairly inexpensive at $33/quart, with 2-3 quarts needed. Limited colors. Cons: Would need to be re-done every 2-3 seasons. I wanted a pretty much 1-time permanent solution, so I passed on this method.

Gelcoat: Pros: Hard finish, should be good for 10-20 years. Could tint to Parker gelcoat color, cost $70/gallon (tinted too!) when not buying Parker gelcoat. Color choice has no limitations. Cons: I didn’t want to fuss with rolling out ~100 square feet at a time. Also, to do it properly, I’d need to have the surfacing wax mixed in with the gelcoat and subsequent coats would need to be re-sanded. This is easy on a smooth finish, but impractical for a non-skid finish. Those I know that so the gelcoat with sand sprinkled on it, re-do it after 10-years or so, as the sand is not really imbedded into the finish.

There is another superior gelcoat method that is VERY technique and temperature dependant. One does 1 coat of smooth gelcoat, let harden, and sand for next coat. 2nd coat is thickened with fumed silica or cabosil and use high-nap roller so you actually “pull” tiny peaks out of the gelcoat while rolling it. In theory, these peaks will roll over as it sets, so they are not pointy. VERY critical here, even down to your gelcoat mix/brand and roller choice/brand. If the peaks don’t curl over, you’ll cut your feet like walking on coral … yet if too smooth … you won’t have any non-skid properties. Thus I passed on gelcoat.

2-part LPU Paint: Pros: Alleged to be a harder and more durable finish than gelcoat. Non-volatile fumed LPUs can be thinned and/or cleaned up with water (but once cured, they are no longer water soluble) Can add non-skid material to the paint or sprinkle it on the top. Cons: Hazardous fumes if using AwlGrip or Imron type paints, but System Three LPU can be rolled or painted with zero hazardous fumes. Note, all LPUs advise wearing respirators when sprayed. A tad expensive at $120/gallon, but it can’t be painted over bare material. LPUs need to be applied over an epoxy primer coat that costs $90/gallon.

I went with System Three products, see their link here, due to the non-volatile fumes. Their on-line Technical Support was also very responsive and they gave me some good advice on techniques using their paint/non-skid products. They also make great epoxy products. If you’re really into boat projects, download their free epoxy book, as I found it even superior to the booklet that West Systems puts out.

PREP:

Rule #1: Your finished result will be DIRECTLY tied to your prep work! In this case the deck was washed, then dried, then sanded with 60-grit paper. Then it was solvent washed with lacquer thinner. Then the border around the vertical deck transition was masked off. The System3 primer went down easily and could be re-coated as soon as dry to the touch.

Image

Above you can see the finished 2-coats of the epoxy primer. This was sanded and then the BORDER coats of the LPU paint was applied. System3 paints use what they call a “cross-linker”, which I think of as a hardener to paint as a catalyst is to epoxy. With the cross-link added, the paint film is harder and much more durable. But you need to re-coat within 8-hours or else you need to sand off the gloss! When not adding the cross-linker to the paint, you have a 72-hour window in which to re-coat.

Here was my ‘theory’ and reasoning for my methodology when applying this special 2-part paint:

* Border coat #1 – Cross-link added
* Border coat #2 – No cross-link added
Both done on SAT, so now I could full-coat the deck on Sunday.
* Non-Skid coat #1 – Cross-link added
* Non-Skid coat #2 – Cross-link added
* Final Finish coat – No non-skid material added, thinned, but with cross-link added
This last ‘topcoat’ is done to embed the non-skid under a finished paint film, and with the cross-link, this should be a durable HARD finish.

MASKING TOOLS:
Tools of the trade. Make sure to have a sharp Exacto and try to only cut through the tape only and not into the deck. Remember with LPU paints, they form a “film” and we don’t ever want to cut through that film. In fact, in all of my prep work, the masking took the most time.

Image

MASKING TIPS:
See the clear cup? Works great for corners so you can see where you’re cutting ;) ! To get a uniform circle around each interior deck feature, say like the round deck hatches, I put the Exacto knife up against a wood block. Put a scribe line on the block. Then run around the item with the knife against the line on the block and using that ‘line’ as a guide, keep it tangent to the item (like the second or minute hand on a clock), moving the block WITH the knife across the tape together.

Image

Image


PAINT:
Here’s all the essentials you need, the paint, a cordless drill and mixer blade, some non-skid material, mixing buckets, brush, rags, roller & pan, and some disposable gloves. In this case, I used “Whidbey White” as the primary color and it is more of a warm beige color than any white I have ever seen. It is a tad darker than my existing Parker gelcoat. So I mixed it with their bright snow-white paint at a ratio of 1-part white paint to 2-parts beige (Whidbey White). It came out great!

Again, you need to think ahead about how many coats you can get down in a day. If there’s no way you can get another coat in after the one you are working on, DO NOT add the cross-link additive to the paint. Each coat went on fast, say 30-minutes to do my ~9’ by 13’ cockpit.

Image

Image


COAT #1:
Here’s what she looks like after one coat. You can see a faint line where the 2’ border of beige matched up against the gray primed surface, but this will covered in subsequent coats.

Image

Here’s the picture of the final result, along with comments about the non-skid grit I used (and just how much), plus some thoughts about ‘Lessons Learned’, and then about other non-skid deck products like Durabak.

Image

NOTES on DURABAK:
I didn’t even consider this thick rubber-like deck non-skid, i.e., think of DIY truck bedliner material, as I have heard many mixed reviews about it. Now please understand that while I myself haven't used it, nevermind have seen it installed by my own eyes, from emails I’ve received about it plus from what I read on the net ... I didn't want it. Some reported problems applying it down, even to where Warthog (on his X-Shark Mako project) had to remove their first attempts and re-do it. To me the biggest negative was the cleaning and cleanable factor, as I am told it holds dirt and it a bitch to clean and to keep clean. And, some say it needs to be recoated every season with hard use. Forget that ... !

NON-SKID GRIT:
I used the non-compressible polycarbonate micro-balloons from SystemThree. A few benefits of them are that they are a uniform size, which should be more stable (and permanent) in the finished paint film and that the density of them is darn closer to that of the paint, so they stayed in suspension after mixing and when applying.

My finished floor feels like 120-150 grit sandpaper. It should be an excellent non-skid surface with the durability of a traditional gelcoat finish. Only time will tell !

PAINT/NON-SKID MIX/RATIO:
The spec sheet for the system3 LPU says it covers anywhere from 350 to 400 square feet, so for my roughly < 100’ sq-ft deck, I knew I’d get 4 good coats down. Plus I had a quart more paint on hand, as remember, I mixed their white to their beige color at a ratio of 1 to 2. I mixed 48-ounces (16oz white, 32oz beige) at a time and added ~1/3rd of the non-skid container to each of the non-skid coats.

LESSONS LEARNED:
ROLLING TIPS: - Make sure to use even pressure on the roller, otherwise you will leave ridges or lines in the paint film, especially with the non-skid material added. I found that if I worked out a 2’ wide by 3’ long area at a time – it went well. I rolled the bulk paint on in one direction and feathered it out in the other.

REMOVING TAPE or DE-TAPING: - This is CRITICAL! A key point to know when using 2-part linear polyurethane is to remove the masking tape while the paint is still wet or else let it dry and then score the edge with an Exacto knife. Otherwise, the tape can peel off the paint as the paint film is not fully cured! Two-part paints develop their ‘tensile’ strength very quickly, but it takes several days to develop ‘peel’ strength.

The only place I had an issue is when weather threatened and I decided I just couldn’t risk putting down a 3rd coat in the same afternoon. But, I had used hardener in the previous coat. So I took the next afternoon off and completed the last coat. I did have the ‘score’ the edge between glossy paint and the non-skid in order to remove the blue 3M tape that had been laid down in the previous afternoon. See the tip below though, in case you ever get a paint ‘pull’.

CURING PAINT “PULLS”: - This is where water-based (ONLY while ‘wet’) LPUs paints shine! While pulling the tape, I got the idea to have a tiny cap full of paint on hand. I did get a few pulls, as remember, LPUs get their strength from the integrity of the entire paint film. I simply dipped my finger into that tiny cap I had of paint, touched the surface under the pull, and then wetted the same finger to smear the ‘pull’ back onto the deck. You CANNOT tell I had a pull in those areas! Plus, if you see a rough edge where the non-skid meets the gloss paint or un-non-skidded surface, just wet your finger and smooth it out. This really worked slick! The transition of gloss surface to non-skid looks totally professional on my install!

Other Lessons: - I painted in clean boxers and clean white socks … it wasn’t a pretty sight ;) , but it sure kept dirt down on the floor for the coats in-process, haha!

IMPRESSIONS:
I’m totally thrilled! The picture attached doesn’t do it justice, but the final product is amazing. It looks better than brand new! As you see this picture, I had walked on the deck for the entire day and yet no dirt or anything imbed into the non-skid. The grit feels like you’re walking on sandpaper, yet is not bad on bare feet at all, since it is so uniform.

I had one place where I missed a “drip” onto the previous coat. Since it was in a place you won’t see it, I tried to remove it. This LPU paint dries so hard that I had to use a sharp knife to even remove any of the paint! The best I could do was to knock the top off the dome of the droplet. Again, you won’t see it, but I was thrilled to see the hardness of the finished product.

Now to see how it lasts through the next many seasons!
www.classicparker.com
MISS TEAK - '92 Parker 25' mod-V Sport Cabin
"Life's too short ... for an ugly boat! "
DaleH
Bottom Paint Application Technician
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:51 pm
Boat Name: MISS TEAK
Boat Type: Parker 25 SC
Location: Parker River, Newbury, MA
Contact:

Re: Non-Skid deck using LPU Paints, a DIY Tutorial

Post by DaleH »

FYI ... sorry, forgot to add this!

COSTS:
$314 shipped for gallon kit of epoxy primer, gallon of Whitbey White (beige color) LPU paint, quart of Orcas White LPU paint, and container of non-skid.

Add for 1" and 2" wide tape, plus disposable brushes, rollers, and pans. Maybe $350 or less for the total project.
www.classicparker.com
MISS TEAK - '92 Parker 25' mod-V Sport Cabin
"Life's too short ... for an ugly boat! "
Hirilondë
Master of the Arcane
Posts: 1317
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:50 am
Boat Name: Hirilondë
Boat Type: 1967 Pearson Renegade
Location: Charlestown, RI

Re: Non-Skid deck using LPU Paints, a DIY Tutorial

Post by Hirilondë »

Many small boat builders are starting to use System 3 WR-LPU. I realize that it will probably never be as glossy as the solvent based stuff, but then I like semi-gloss. I am curious as to how well and long it will hold up. In regards to the environmental to health concerns the stuff can't be beat. Please comment in regards to longevity when you feel experienced enough to do so.

Nice job documenting your project. You seem to have carefully thought this out, planned and executed the work.
Dave Finnegan
builder of Spindrift 9N #521 'Wingë'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gresham’s Law of information: Bad information drives out good. No matter how long ago a correction for a particular error may have appeared in print or online, it never seems to catch up with the ever-widening distribution of the error.
Commander-147
Rough Carpentry Apprentice
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 8:14 am
Boat Name: Destiny
Boat Type: Pearson Commander
Location: Brooksville, FL

Re: Non-Skid deck using LPU Paints, a DIY Tutorial

Post by Commander-147 »

Dale

Thanks you for your informative and very discriptive post. It comes at a time when I am looking for a "good" method of doing non-skid after I recore the deck of my commander.

A question if you don't mind from someone that has never done a project like this before.

1.) Could I do my epoxy primer and then the Awlgrip on the smooth areas around the perimeter of the deck and paint a little bit into the future non-skid areas. Then mask off the areas to be non-skid and paint them and still get a good bond with the non-skid where it was going over the awlgrip around the perimeter? I would like to avoid a seam where the two come together and possibly show the primer below.
Jerry Carpenter
Commander # 147 "Destiny"
Oscar
Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:54 pm
Boat Name: Lady Kay IV
Boat Type: 1990 Dragonfly 25
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Contact:

Re: Non-Skid deck using LPU Paints, a DIY Tutorial

Post by Oscar »

Timely indeed. Thanks.
Out there, alone, there is only truth.
Idon84
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:06 pm
Boat Name: Cosmic Dancer
Boat Type: Hess Cutter
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact:

Re: Non-Skid deck using LPU Paints, a DIY Tutorial

Post by Idon84 »

Thanks for the how to!

I'm planning on using the Shaw Blue for the hull, Orcas White for the topsides & Vashon Gray for the nonskid. I have tried to find places where others have rated the paint but cannot find any. If you have any issues or see anything in the future I would like to hear about it.

Thanks again
Bryon
Cosmic Dancer
1980, Hess Cutter.
http://www.picasaweb.com/idon84
DaleH
Bottom Paint Application Technician
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:51 pm
Boat Name: MISS TEAK
Boat Type: Parker 25 SC
Location: Parker River, Newbury, MA
Contact:

Re: Non-Skid deck using LPU Paints, a DIY Tutorial

Post by DaleH »

Commander-147 wrote:I would like to avoid a seam where the two come together and possibly show the primer below.
You won't get a seam where the primer is involved, as I believe the primer is indeed a prerequisite with any LPU whether or not using any non-skid additive.

As far as any seam between paint and non-skid ... you will get a line naturally due to the transition, so honestly, I din't understand your questions. However, if you read my DIY to the Lessons Learned, it was possible with SystemThree LPU to "soften" the transition between paint to non-skid, just by wetting your finger and running it on the border. I guess if one was really, really "good", you could tape a line as a GUIDE and then just roll close to it with a somewhat firm, but even roll stroke. This would eliminate any hard edge.

But that said, I think one will likely see any transition anyway, whereas for best results this needs to be a multi-coat application for best durability.

They say this type of painted surface should be as good as gelcoat. We'll see :) !
www.classicparker.com
MISS TEAK - '92 Parker 25' mod-V Sport Cabin
"Life's too short ... for an ugly boat! "
User avatar
preserved_killick
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:01 am
Boat Name: Seagrass
Boat Type: Alberg 30
Location: NH
Contact:

Re: Non-Skid deck using LPU Paints, a DIY Tutorial

Post by preserved_killick »

Great post!

I'll add that the System Three LPU is easy to repair. I painted my decks with it last summer, and had lots more work to do on the boat. A "scratch or two" did occur. This spring before launch I sanded the areas and touched up with little brushes and the repair is invisible.
___________________________________
1965 Alberg 30 #116
http://picasaweb.google.com/fongemie
bcooke
Master of the Arcane
Posts: 2272
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 10:55 pm
Boat Name: Jenny
Boat Type: 1966 Pearson Triton
Location: Rowley, MA
Contact:

Re: Non-Skid deck using LPU Paints, a DIY Tutorial

Post by bcooke »

Okay, really, how much did System Three pay you for that post?

Its a nicely documented project. Maybe I have been watching too many late light infomercials.
-Britton
Work is overrated.

Most everything you read on the Internet is wrong.

The Website
The Blog
Drew
Rough Carpentry Apprentice
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:28 pm
Boat Type: Alberg 35
Location: Wilson, NC

Re: Non-Skid deck using LPU Paints, a DIY Tutorial

Post by Drew »

Thank you for the excellent post.

I have a box full of WR-LPU awaiting application to my deck. Your post was most timely.

I plan to use a similar method for the non skid.

I am thrilled to know it is easy to repair.

Drew
Oscar
Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:54 pm
Boat Name: Lady Kay IV
Boat Type: 1990 Dragonfly 25
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Contact:

Re: Non-Skid deck using LPU Paints, a DIY Tutorial

Post by Oscar »

Maybe I have been watching too many late light infomercials.
I feel your pain...... my "marketing BS detectors" are getting very sensitive now that I'm past the half century mark, and the number of channels on TV are decreasing with the inverse of my age squared and rapidly approaching 0. So the flags went off, but I hit the "cancel" button on the alarm.......Image
Out there, alone, there is only truth.
Quetzalsailor
Master of the Arcane
Posts: 1100
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:53 am
Boat Name: Quetzal
Boat Type: LeComte North East 38
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Non-Skid deck using LPU Paints, a DIY Tutorial

Post by Quetzalsailor »

I'll join the chorus in thanking you for your excellent post.

Our 1970 NE 38's deck is looking ever more shabby, the stress cracking at the usual corners is as ugly as ever, previous owners' repairs are looking worse than ever as the paint dissappears, the gel coat under the paint is porous and pitted.

I've been dreading starting repairs since there's no easy way to do a little at a time (no simple sharp-cornered cockpit floor like your Parker).
Collin.Harty
Bottom Sanding Grunt
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:02 am
Contact:

Re: Non-Skid deck using LPU Paints, a DIY Tutorial

Post by Collin.Harty »

[quote="Hirilondë"] Please comment in regards to longevity when you feel experienced enough to do so.

I used System Three's water-based LPU on a dingy I restored back in the mid-90's and I have to say 15 years later the little beast's finish has held up excellently. I applied it using their 155 primer and an HVLP spray system, and even though it definitely does not look new (no extra for lov'in for this hard working tender), it has taken a beating and come through shining. This is a completely subjective comparison, but my dad's cold-molded 30 footer has been refinished several times over the years with Awlgrip, and I'd say I am getting a comparable service life out of the water-based LPU. The only qualifier (as others have noted) is that I was happy with semi-gloss finish and wasn't aiming for the high-gloss dad likes. My only complaint is that System Three doesn't offer nearly the color selection they did back in the 90's.

Collin
DaleH
Bottom Paint Application Technician
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:51 pm
Boat Name: MISS TEAK
Boat Type: Parker 25 SC
Location: Parker River, Newbury, MA
Contact:

Re: Non-Skid deck using LPU Paints, a DIY Tutorial

Post by DaleH »

Collin.Harty wrote:... and I'd say I am getting a comparable service life out of the water-based LPU.
Just note that while S3's 2-part LPU is water reducible, it is NOT by any stretch of the imagination a 'water based' paint as many and most would think of a true water-based paint. It is only reducible when wet, but once dry, water doesn't touch it. The chemistry is totally different for this paint hat a water-based paint.

Oh yeah, and I am no shill for System3 either ... I'm just a happy customer ;) !

Happy 4th everyone! :)
www.classicparker.com
MISS TEAK - '92 Parker 25' mod-V Sport Cabin
"Life's too short ... for an ugly boat! "
bcooke
Master of the Arcane
Posts: 2272
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 10:55 pm
Boat Name: Jenny
Boat Type: 1966 Pearson Triton
Location: Rowley, MA
Contact:

Re: Non-Skid deck using LPU Paints, a DIY Tutorial

Post by bcooke »

it is NOT by any stretch of the imagination a 'water based' paint as many and most would think of a true water-based paint.
LPU's are not paints for that matter. They are generally referred to as topcoats in order to differentiate. Totally different chemistry than paints.
-Britton
Work is overrated.

Most everything you read on the Internet is wrong.

The Website
The Blog
bigd14
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 211
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:56 pm
Boat Type: Ericson 27
Location: Portland, OR

Re: System 3 LPU Warning!

Post by bigd14 »

I have been searching online for other's experience with this topcoat and found several references to an important preparation step. Do NOT use coated sandpaper or you could experience adhesion problems. I ran across several posts here and there that alluded to that fact and apparently its in the fine print on the can, but not in any of the online literature. Apparently something in the coated sandpaper doesn't agree with the LPU. I don't think this applies to System 3's primer, just the topcoat.

I will be using regular uncoated sanding discs for the final prep...

Doug
Doug
1972 Ericson 27
Post Reply