Time? Between cut and recore ??

[Jasper Windvane]

Today I started the recore of part of my cabin roof. The wet is where the bolts for the hand/grab rails went through. I did a few drill holes to see how far the wet is.. then I looked at the fiberglass and thought .. once I open up the roof, I will immediately start to clean out the bad balsa. This will take me tomorrow, I'm thinking. Is that about right for a small area? So,, tomorrow am, I cut .. then open ,, clean out .. I don't have the balsa yet. Will order it from Jamestown once I have opened the roof area.. Probably take a few days to get to me .. the big question .. how do I deal with the opened cabin rood while I wait for the balsa..

Is it ok to take a number of days to do one of these projects?

I bought some 3mil plastic. I have blue tape, duct tape, and a big blue tarp to go over. In case it rains..

I must say I am very nervous about the "cut". But the wet core isn't going to get out of there by itself.

Another thing.. I am thinking of cutting twice. That is, two smaller cuts rather than one big long one. This will make the project more manageable . I think.. is this ok?

If I cut and clean tomorrow, probably will get the balsa by weekend? Start the recore Monday? Is this too long?

I don't know where I can purchase balsa core locally. My boat is in Newington, NH near Portsmouth. There is a West Marine nearby but I doubt they have balsa and I don't do much business with West.

Maybe I can do an overnight delivery.. will see..

Wish me luck..

One worried classic plastic recore guy.

[bcooke]

After the first cut it gets easier.

Kind of hard to say how long it will take. My first bits of recore were over a couple of days. By the end of that summer I was cutting out sections like you describe and had them back together in 2 hours.

As long as you keep it dry you can keep it open indefinitely - well, I suppose UV damage will start to occur at some point but there really isn't any rush.

You could just wait until the balsa arrives too. That way you can cut off the top skin, scrape out the bad balsa, glue in the new balsa, and stick the old skin back on all in one easy day. Come back the next day and grind out the edges of the cut skin and tape them.

Easy :-)

It isn't rocket science and you will find it very forgiving. And if your first job goes bad just cut it out and do it again.

Easy :-)

-Britton

[Jasper Windvane]

Thanks for the input .. its that darn "first cut" .. I sat there and looked at the cabin roof for two hours .. couldn't pull the trigger.

Today .. I will cut today.. Will have the balsa tomorrow..

Can get it one day UPS..

The fear of messing up is slowing me down..

But,,,, necessity is the mother of core intervention .. or something
like that..

pss..... one question .. what size fiberglass tape did you use to seal the
cut line? Looked on Jamestown,, they have 2", 3", 4" .. on and on..

[Tim]

Don't rush it. There's absolutely no hurry to reinstall your new core after you open the deck. Of course you need to keep the area dry, but other than that you can take as long as you want. The worst thing you can do is rush it because you think you have to. You'll get faster with experience, but give yourself enough time to get your head around what you're doing as you approach these initial areas.

Don't bother overnighting the core. Just order it normally. This job is just not time-critical unless your schedule dictates the rush order. Besides, if you order from Jamestown, ground shipping will get you the product the next day every time, as long as you order by, say, mid-afternoon.

Doing a core job in smaller bits is fine, particularly to help you get your feet wet. Just remember that if you reuse topskins, each cut you make will have to be patched, tabbed, and faired back in, so ultimately fewer cuts means less work. That said, smaller core sections are easier to remove and easier to reinstall--again, particularly for the beginner--so do what you think you need to do to keep the job manageable.

Definitely consider ditching the old top skins and just relaminating with entirely new material. I'd never reuse topskins again myself--it just doesn't save any time and can often make more work, not less. Judge this for yourself, but don't take the reuse for granted. In any event, save the top skins for help in determining how much material you need to relaminate, if you go that route.

You didn't say how large these areas are, but the smaller the area, the more sense it makes to ditch the old topskin and simply relaminate with new material. If all goes well, reusing the skin on a large area can work OK, but frankly I'd still not do it again. That's just me, but my point is to reiterate that there is more than one way to do this that's worth considering.

That first cut is tough, but soon you'll be zipping that saw through the boat with such ease that she might end up in tiny bits if you're not careful. :<)

[bcooke]

In regards to tape size, I have rolls of 2,4, and 6 inch that I make work for me but it totally depends.

I use the grinder and dish out the joint where the original cut was. The width of the ground out area depends really on how thick the original skin is but frankly, I have just guesstimated and it has worked out for me. For what you are talking about I would guess dishing out about 2 inches each side of the joint and then using a layer of 4 inch tape, followed by 3 inch, followed by 2 inch. Or maybe 3,2,1 which would probably work fine. Like I said, I have always played it by ear and just did what I felt was appropriate at the time.

Tim has a good point about not re-using the skins. While I have always re-used skins I am thinking if I were to continue I would probably move away from that strategy. For the cuts you are talking about (6 inch in width or less?) then it really doesn't make sense to re-use the old skin. By the time you dish out the joints there won't be much of the old skin left anyway. Just use wider tape or cut out the dimension you need out of full sized cloth.

I think you will be surprised at how easy it really is. It sounds drastic but it isn't that bad. Tim's warning is all too true. Once you get a taste for it you are going to have to resist the urge to grab your skilsaw every time you get a whiff of moisture.

Disclaimer: I am NOT a pro at this. I just read the book, asked a few questions, sucked it up and pulled the trigger on the skilsaw. With some common sense, and a tendency to overbuild you will be just fine.

And again like Tim says, there isn't really any reason to rush this.

Have fun!

-Britton

[Jasper Windvane]

Wow.. made the cut .. and it was not what I though .. the wet was not as large, although there was damp.. getting the top skin off was a bear.
I have two more areas to remove tomorrow, not too large.

After I got the skin off, I looked over the old skin and I doubt I can reuse it.

Anyone ?? After the balsa is in place, all epoxy'd and all.

What is the procedure for recovering with glass. From the look, it seems there is a first layer of rougher glass, followed by smooth.

How many layers does it take to bring the glass to the original level?

[Tim]

One layer of 1708 (17 oz. biaxial cloth with stitched mat backing) properly saturated, laminated, and rolled is about 3/32" in thickness. You'll need two or three layers of this to make up the appropriate thickness, depending on the thickness of your old top skin. Typically, you find the topskin is roughly 3/16" - 1/4" in thickness, but you can measure yours to tell.

[Jasper Windvane]

Just saw the post about the cloth .. thanks ..

I'm assuming the layers are put on one at a time? Or,, can I wet out one
layer, and then put another over top?

After the two or three layers of biaxial cloth?

Is there a separate cloth for the top layer to get the skin
smooth?

After each use,, I spray with water, scrub with scotch brite pad,
and wipe down with ??? What wipe down material?

Oh,, do I sand between the layers of biaxial?

thanks

[Tim]

Apply 2-4 layers of material all at the same time, one after the other. Or whatever you're comfortable with, but there's no need to do it one layer at a time (and in fact this is less desirable). If you're inexperienced, then work at a pace that suits you. Do a small patch first and get used to working with the materials. I always assume that people have at least the most basic of fiberglass skills or they wouldn't be attempting these repairs, but if not, be sure you get the practice you need.

Between cured layers, wash with plain water and a scrubby pad, dry off, and sand if more than 24 hours has passed, or if the surface has rough areas that might affect future layers. In general, I always sand cured fiberglass before applying additional material, whether fairing or new laminate.

Light cloth--6 or 10 oz--as your final layer will provide a smoother final surface, but you'll still have to fair and fill the weave. This material isn't required; it's up to the applicator.

There are a lot of specifics to your individual case that will affect how you proceed. This advice is intended to be general in nature and may require modification to suit your own situation.

[bcooke]

Lots of good questions.

For a good overview of the process WEST SYSTEM puts out a small pamphlet/book titled "Fiberglass Boat Repair and Maintenance", Product #002-550. I bought my copy for $2.99.

It is an excelllent resource and covers everything in good detail and with good pictures from the people that presumably know the product best. I can highly recomend it.

Actually, I just pulled it out to get the title and I think I need to read it again. It really is that good.

While I am not a HUGE fan of Don Casey repair techniques, I will say that he was my early inspiration into the boat restoration dream and his books are an easy read with lots of good pictures. Some the techniques are a bit out of date (like mat and roving :-P) but for an overall big picture perspective they are a good place to start. i.e. the classic, "This Old Boat", or the more specific "Sailboat Hull & Deck Repair".

-Britton