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Sorry I have so many questions related to very puzzling modifications that the PO made. Please bear with me...
Triton 106's rudder stock has been extended by the PO (see picture). I would like to move it back to the original set up where the tiller handle is joint with rudder stock at the cockpit sole level (or a little above it I should say). For one thing the rudder stock head and tiller handle interferes with the traveller. It also makes autopilot installation very awkward (it has to be mounted on the coming through an extension arm to reach the tiller).
The rudder extension is made through a bronze sleeve with keyways on both side of the extension (originall rudder stock and the extension piece). The sleve is then set with four set screws. Two of them are completely fronze and the screw heads already broke off. I tried to drill a pilot hole and use one of the those special drill bit that grips the broken screw body (what do we call them) to back it out. Well that was the plan but I broke the special drill bit in the screw. Now I am really stuck. I guess I have two choices: (1) completely drill out the set screw, or (2) use a metal cutting blade attached to the grinder to cut the sleeve off length-wise since I don't plan to use it anymore. Any suggestions which way is better (easier and less potential damage to the rudder stock that I still plan to use)?
Secondly, the rudder stock head is completely frozen on the rudder stock. No matter how hard I try to hammer it out. Any ideas how to take it off? Since there is very little space between the deck and the rudder head it is very difficult to get any leverage. Applying heat through blow torch may also damage the deck. Anyone that has a picture of how Triton rudder head is attached to the stock? (I imagine it just wraps around it).
I'm sure most everyone has broken an 'Easy Out' off in a broken bolt. It's what eventually distinguishes real mechanics from hackers like me.
Since the successful outcome only involves preserving the original rudder post and the rest of the boat, you can consider more options. One would be to drill the setscrews out: arrange a jig if accuracy becomes a problem. You could grind the Easy Out out, and some of the surrounding world, using a Dremel with its small bits or even the cutoff discs. If well equipped and skilful you might weld a bit of rod to the broken Easy Off and get it out (seen this done by an old German machinist on my broken brake bleed screw)
Once the setscrews are out and if the extension is still uncooperative, look again at where you can apply force. Make up a fork with lever that grabs the extension and see about how the load gets transferred back to the rudder post. You can heat things but you need to work on how to control the spread of it. Heat sinks, insulation, water, wet towels, deflectors, short time, high enough temperature, ready with extractive force.
Cutting the extension lengthwise would require a steady hand and/or jigs. The Dremel and cutoff discs might do very well and be less exciting than a saw.
You should'a seen my wife and me extracting the ball mount from the trailer hitch. No place to pry on the plastic bumper; no scratches desired, either. Involved 2-8' 2"x4"s, several C-clamps, a 12" square of 1/2" steel plate, 50' of old halyard, a small sledge, a length of 1/2" rod, and assorted blocks of wood. 1 1/2 hours and a lot more stuff out of the scrap bins before the above-mentioned items were evolved into the effective tool.
Do the two screws you have out, have tapped holes in the shaft?
Do you care about the extension shaft? Sawzalls... and even jig saws with make fast work of bronze. Lenox demolition blades fly through bronze. (They get hot, as in blued steel hot... but keep on trucking none the less, wonder what they make they are made of?
If it were me, I would start with the vertical cut with a 4.5 inch grinder with the thinest cutoff disk in the grinder. Bronze cuts like butter. Don't go all the way through, and with a set of cold chisels wedge the slot apart far enough that it deforms. Work your way up and down the slot, and the teeny bit of metal at the bottom will split apart. Keep increasing chisel width so that they tip never reaches the shaft... no marring of the machined surface. A real light weight ball peen is all you need. 4-6 ounce.
If it doesn't free up make a split on the opposite side, and with two chisels lay them in the top of each slot and hammer down until it spreads. Now relying on the key place a drift on the top of side that has split. Alternate hitting each side. I use a bronze drift for this, so the shaft remains unmarred. (Though I'm usually pounding on steel or stainless steel... bronze to bronze will mar.)
Depending on how thick the back side is, you may want to grind a giant C shape into the back, to weaken it where you want it to bend. A grinding disk for stainless steel, or a flap disk of the roughest grit you can find (Dewalt are long lasting... but there are others that are good. I stay away from the russian and chinese ones...)
Once you get it to spread, the diameter of the hole in the sleeve increases a huge amount.
When you get the first slice out of the way, it may be worth your while to place a pipe on the end of the extension and apply some sideways force. Depending on the location of the keys it may deform the sleeve enough to slide right out. (Weaken the sleeve to the point that you feel comfortable you won't bend the rudder shaft, or loosen up the fiberglass rudder tube.
I would not use a chain wrench or pipe wrench on the rudder shaft, as deep scores and scratches give a place for corrosion to start. I'd also resist the temptation to drive a wedge between the rudder shaft and extension when you see the parting line...
You will want a welding tarp all over the cockpit, because when you grind bronze it comes off red hot, and in large pieces. It'll blister paint, and generally is uncomfortable to have hit you...
Thanks all for sharing advices and experiences. Let me respond to the questions so that you can better help me:
Zach wrote:
Do the two screws you have out, have tapped holes in the shaft?
No, I felt around them with a thin stick and it does not seem that there are tapped hoels.
If it doesn't free up make a split on the opposite side, and with two chisels lay them in the top of each slot and hammer down until it spreads. Now relying on the key place a drift on the top of side that has split. Alternate hitting each side. I use a bronze drift for this, so the shaft remains unmarred. (Though I'm usually pounding on steel or stainless steel... bronze to bronze will mar.)
Depending on how thick the back side is, you may want to grind a giant C shape into the back, to weaken it where you want it to bend. A grinding disk for stainless steel, or a flap disk of the roughest grit you can find
Will you please clarify? I am not following your description since I have limited experience with this type of repair.
David wrote:
Is your boat in the water or out? Is the extension solid or hollow? Is the extension bronze? I assume the tillerhead is bronze?
Boat is out of water. Extension is solid bronze. Tiller head is bronze too (see picture below - T700SC).
Quetzalsailor wrote:
Make up a fork with lever that grabs the extension and see about how the load gets transferred back to the rudder post.
Will you please describe in a little more detail what you mean by fork? I am having trouble visualizing it. The contraption you described in getting the hitch ball out sounds really complex.
As has been suggested, I would split the collar to get the extension separated. Then take it out and get the tillerhead off..it probaty needs some encouragement from WD40, a block of wood and a hammer.
If I understand correctly, you have an external sleeve which is affixed by setscrews pressing against, or maybe into dimples in, the rudderpost. If you're lucky, the sleeve has enough thickness to pry against. If you pry against only the edge that faces you, you may be lucky or you will more likely take a shaving off of the sleeve, making it too round to grab for the next try. My thought was to make a fork at the end of a lever so that the tines would lift against the sleeve on each side of the post; it would not pop off and it would not take shavings off. Making the fork could involve hours of sawing or bolting up an assemblage of barstock and flatstock out of your junque bin. The geometry of the whole thing is key and beyond my ability to write adequately about it. The tines need to rest square against the end of the sleeve. The fulcrum for the lever should be as close to the post as you can get. The lever itself should be as long as practicable. How about two short (2"?) lengths of the gutsiest angle (3" x 3" x 1/4"?) that will fit between the sleeve and the cockpit floor, while sitting on a load-spreading fulcrum; bolt the upstanding legs to a 8' 2" x 6"; make sure the tremendous load this thing, with a mechanical advantage of at least 1:30, can generate will go somewhere good (the load will have to go via the cockpit floor to the rudder to the rudderpost). You may find that the connection between the angles and the lever will have to be much stronger than simply bolting steel to wood; you might need a hunk of steel to make a transition.
During the car hitch-ectomy, I bent 1/2" x 2" aluminum barstock, broke the ends off the two 2" x 4"s. The remaining 6' length of 2" x 4" (used edgewise rather than flat) still gave my wife about 1:25 advantage with how I ended up arranging the fulcrum.
Your description of the fork is now more clear to me. Although I am not sure yet which way I will approach it (i.e. cutting off the sleeve or using a fork). Today, I worked on the throughhulls. The PO sealed off the old head sea water inlet and waste outlet throughhulls with marinetex and capped them off with bronze caps. Both of them were fronzen. I had to cut off the caps (aided with cold chisel) and locking nuts. It was not too difficult.
One question with your method though. As I mentioned I can see the keys on both end of the sleeve. The part of the keys that I can see seem to be thicker than the part hinden in the sleeve (see drawing below). If that is the case will using fork push the top sleeve (I am assuming there are two keys) against the top key and jam it even tighter?
Red line signifies the increase in chisel width, as well as where to hit. (Left diagram)
At 3/8ths its probably not worth grinding a C shaped relief, but it is a tool to have in the aresenal, particularly since the keys appear to be inline. I would suggest you cut 90 degrees off of each side of the key, as buggering up the keyway is not a fun one.
Since the keys extend out past the sleeve, build a slide hammer out of a pair of vice grips. Take a pair of vice grips and weld a 3/8ths steel rod onto the bolt. Drill a 3/8ths+ hole in a lump of brass or something heavy, and thread the end of the rod for a big nut. Clamp on to the end of the key as hard as you can, and once the sleeve has opened up... wail on the keys by using the slide hammer to pull them out.
You can also take a chisel and hold it at a little more than a 45 degree angle and smack the top of the key. If the material is to soft, hard, or stuck... it won't work. But sometimes you can wiggle them loose that way.
P.S. Have you drenched this thing in penetrating oil? PB Blaster is good stuff. A little bit of heat can do wonders too...
